S4E15 Losing My Mind

Today at Seattle Grace we are punching children over Graham crackers and struggling to find a balance between chaotic personal life with an orderly professional one. The difference between Lexie and Merediths views on family, the most uncomfortable text message and George's inappropriate job.

We also talk about the fine line between fantasy and reality and how it relates to our patients Ava and Greta.  We are also losing our minds as we asses the strain that idealised relationships can have on our mental well-being.
There is also a hysterical pregnancy, Callie's struggle with her sexuality, Ava's desire for her body to match her face and Mark's speaking straight from a Mills and Boon.

Tamzen and Ayla
xxx

Greys Anatomy Credits
Created by Shonda Rhimes
Starring :
Ellen Pompeo - Meredith Grey
Sandra Oh - Christina Yang
T. R. Knight - George O'Malley
Justin Chambers - Alex Karev
Katherine Heigl - Izzie Stevens
Chandra Wilson - Miranda Bailey
James Pickens Jr - Richard Webber
Patrick Dempsy - Derek ( McDreamy ) Shepard
Kate Walsh - Addison Shepard
Chyler Leigh  - Lexi Grey
Sara Ramirez - Callie Torres 
Mark Sloan - Eric Dane

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

So you blew me off for a bottle of tequila. Tequila's no good for you. It's called as right. It's not nearly as much fun to wake up to. Hello everyone and welcome to Skaples and Tequila, a Grey's Anatomy recap podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:13

My name is Ayla and I'm Tamzin, and today we're doing season four, episode 15, losing my Mind.

Speaker 1: 0:27

Can relate, can relate, can relate. It's officially been six weeks since my hysterectomy and I had my final follow up with the doctor. Today. I'm really excited for a lack of invasive procedures in my life.

Speaker 2: 0:46

I'm so excited for you. We don't need more invasion in our bodies. You know no one needs it and you've had more than most people should need. Just yeah, onwards and upwards, I think, is the feelings for you right now Onwards and upwards.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Something definitely went upwards this morning and, like I'm still not okay with any of it. Speaking of lady health news, I know that by the time this episode airs it's going to be a bit past, but how fucking shocked were you to find out that it was only in the last few weeks that menstrual products have been tested with?

Speaker 2: 1:27

blood. Do you know? I think shocked is unfortunately not the right word. I saw it and I was like yep of course no.

Speaker 1: 1:38

I told my surgeon this today because we were talking about women's health stuff and there was a certain symptom that I was asking about, and she was like I have no medical reason for this. And I'm like, well, hey, we didn't actually know whether or not pads or tampons worked all week and a half ago and she hadn't heard, she didn't know, wow. So I pulled up this study and was like, no, no, no, they never tested period barrier products previous to two weeks ago. I just like, just like I know the ads had to have the blue liquid because we couldn't show red. And I'm like, yeah, and they were testing the products with saline. Even I, just I wish.

Speaker 1: 2:19

I understand you got vegan, but like we have a huge world market for animal products, which means there's probably a lot of like blood that's going to waste, that could have been used to do this.

Speaker 2: 2:32

I mean, I'm pretty sure there's blood going to waste in hospitals all over the place because blood doesn't last. You know, like when you get blood donations and stuff doesn't there's it's a menstrual blood is like.

Speaker 1: 2:42

it has a different texture. There's more membrane and stuff in it, but it's more it's normal.

Speaker 2: 2:47

It's still the fucking blood. It's not saline. It's not saline. I just wish I wasn't so.

Speaker 1: 2:57

I'd say gooped and gagged. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not appropriate when we're talking about period blood.

Speaker 2: 3:03

They don't care about us.

Speaker 1: 3:04

They don't care, they do not care, mm. Hmm. Well, that fits really well into this episode, because Weber does not care about anyone else's comfort level or, you know, professional integrity in this episode.

Speaker 2: 3:22

I'm just going to quickly, because you mentioned it, chuck in a quote from the chief today, because he says is there something going on with all the women that when I speak, they simply ignore it? Yeah, actually.

Speaker 1: 3:34

I think they're done.

Speaker 2: 3:35

Yes, I think they're done with it. I think we're done with it. I think they might be over it.

Speaker 1: 3:38

Yeah, how is that that in the three years we've been doing this podcast, all of our villains have switched all of the people that we knew to be villains?

Speaker 2: 3:51

Except Ava. I know all the villains?

Speaker 1: 3:52

Sorry, oh, I don't know if she's a villain or if she's just sad. Terribly annoying.

Speaker 2: 3:58

And just it's actually yeah, she's not a villain, she's just sad. It's sad, yeah. So I'm just going to get into it.

Speaker 1: 4:05

I'm going to read the monologue and we're going to have a little bit of a chat because also, I just realized how on the nose this title is Ava losing her mind, losing her mind.

Speaker 2: 4:17

Yeah, it's a bit rude.

Speaker 2: 4:20

I mean there's a lot of brain stuff going on as this episode. It is all about fantasy versus reality. This whole episode is about ideas or beliefs of what you want, who you want to be, and how reality just isn't quite matching up. Meredith's monologue today goes the problem with being a resident is that you feel crazy all the time. You haven't slept in years. You spend every day around people in massive crisis. You lose your ability to judge what's normal in yourself or anyone else, and yet people are constantly asking you to tell them how you're doing. How the hell are you supposed to know? You don't even know how you're doing. Don't wonder why people go crazy. Wonder why they don't in the face of all we can lose in a day, in an instant. Wonder what the hell it is that makes us hold it all together, and I think that's pretty pertinent.

Speaker 1: 5:15

Rage that makes us hold it all together.

Speaker 2: 5:22

Yeah, it's a really interesting episode this week because it is so, like I said, it's this fantasy versus reality. It's people really really holding on tightly to beliefs when maybe there's no evidence for it at all. We open this episode today with I actually love this scene but Christina cleaning the apartment and dancing and I love it. She's doing something so out of the ordinary because we know Christina. She's used to living in a mess. She's such a great character to show this polar opposite of her, being so dedicated and procedural at work and never straying from her path, but her personal life and her home is just absolute chaos, and I love that juxtaposition of her character.

Speaker 1: 6:26

Yeah, yeah, and she's also low key, terrifying because people who aren't terribly good at maintaining clean households when they do go into and I'm absolutely victim of it myself when they do go into these hyper focused cleaning frenzies, most of the time there's no actual cleaning taking place. You just kind of pushing shit around with the vacuum and someone else is going to have to come back in and like really clean.

Speaker 2: 6:58

Kelly says that exactly because this watching Christina engage in this activity, watching Christina do something so out of the ordinary completely scares Kelly. So Kelly kind of hands Christina back to Meredith like she's broken, like she's returning a broken blender. She's like, hey, this doesn't work anymore. This is your problem. She was cleaning, and I don't think that's correct, I don't think that's what she should be doing. And she kind of hands her back and she says also Christina doesn't know how to clean, so she's just moving dirt around.

Speaker 1: 7:30

Mm, hmm, meredith is like not in a dissimilar situation this morning as well, because Meredith is back in psychology. She's there trying to get her file back, which, like I don't think that she can do.

Speaker 2: 7:51

I thought this was weird too.

Speaker 1: 7:55

She's so I just don't think that's a thing that she can have. I don't think it's a thing any of us can have. See my cat going through the little hole, I can, yeah. And I think what our psychologist says is so pertinent. And no one ever really calls Meredith out like this. They're all tiptoeing around this queen bee character and it was kind of refreshing to have that person who has perspective. It was almost like she was one of us, she was one of the viewers going the fuck are you doing Mm? Hmm, why are you doing this? Because Meredith is saying like I'm leaving, you're doing a bad job, and she's so adamant that she's not a quitter and the spitfire that comes back. Your mother quit your father, your father quit you, you quit your boyfriend and on several occasions you have quit life momentarily. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:55

Bitch, but it's like the hard truth that Meredith needs to hear. She doesn't like it. She doesn't like it, she doesn't like it and it's.

Speaker 1: 9:06

I'm so angry at Meredith this whole episode. She cannot see past the end of her nose. She has almost no concern for any other character. This entire episode, Christina included, and to the point where she's she's disrespecting the psychiatrist who is just telling her to make an appointment. She barges into this office while Han is here and I love the fact that we got to see the fact that Han has a soul and she has vulnerability just in that moment.

Speaker 2: 9:40

I love it too. It's such a classic example of, like, really good screenwriting. It's don't tell us, show us. We didn't need a scene of Han going to therapy. We don't need to see Han going through that. Just this brief moment of seeing the fact that she does just made me love her even more. It's like look at her taking. She's so, she's so in control of her own life and she sticks up for herself and she's. I can't believe I used to dislike her so much Same.

Speaker 1: 10:14

I can't believe. We used to idolize Meredith Like I. Again she's also. She follows the psychologist into the fucking bathroom. Girl, how would you feel if your patients did that to you? What are you drinking? Why are your beverages always ridiculous, either in color or volume or receptacle? I am interrupting this podcast so many times because of your liquids.

Speaker 2: 10:43

I know what the fuck is that? It's not just move fast, it just move on.

Speaker 1: 10:48

Why is it dirty gray?

Speaker 2: 10:49

river water. It's not, it's chlorophyll. Move on, I'm not a frog.

Speaker 1: 10:57

I'm not a frog, don't worry about it, Don't worry about it. That was a really long rant for absolutely no payoff. That's similar to Meredith this episode. I can't wait honestly for next episode because of what happens in this bathroom. We got no payoff. We have to wait. We have to wait. But I'm assuming this little spiel from Lexi to Meredith you have written down.

Speaker 2: 11:32

Lexi's having such a rough day and we're jumping all over the place, but that's okay because I guess Meredith going to therapy is the important part here. Lexi's having a rough day, lexi's being asked to do a bunch of stuff she doesn't really feel comfortable doing and Meredith is avoiding her as usual, and Lexi confronts her in the bathroom.

Speaker 1: 11:56

I really love this scene, and this is after Christina just fucking shuts her down as well.

Speaker 2: 12:02

Yeah, I do think it's important to talk about what Christina has just said to her, because I mean we'll go into Christina next, I think, because Christina's storyline at the moment is so important. Christina is in a dark place Termoil, I would say. But Christina has just said to Lexi she hates you, she thinks you're annoying and you showing up like the good little girl that daddy didn't abandon is like the worst thing that happened in months, which is a brutal thing to say, especially because it's coming from Meredith's best friend who's the person who's supposed to be her mentor as well, and her mentor yeah, so it's like.

Speaker 1: 12:46

And the fact that everyone saw Thatcher fucking wasted a couple of weeks ago. So Christina knows exactly the situation that Lexi is in Totally.

Speaker 2: 12:57

And what I think they're all failing to understand is is Lexi it's like this idea even that Christina's put on her like you're the good little girl, your daddy's little girl? He didn't abandon you. It's like, yes, he didn't. But Lexi still got a lot of issues surrounding this because her, she lost her mom and all of a sudden her dad has turned into this violent, terrifying alcoholic that she is trying her best to to parent in a way, and she has gotten to a point only recently that she can't parent him anymore. That's why she moved out. But but Christina and Meredith are so wrapped up in like a very. Our problems are bigger than everybody else's problems. They can't, they can't hold any compassion for anybody else or see past their own, their own stuff. So Lexi's in such a vulnerable position because not only does she need a tribe, she needs people on her side, she needs people to talk to, she needs a friend, she needs a mentor and she wanted this big sister.

Speaker 1: 14:03

There's also the issue of the fact that Lexi's in this terrible position where from the get-go, she was told absolutely not fuck off, we don't want you here. But then Christina brought her home and she's she's bonding and has been invited in with George as well. So you're so right, she. I can imagine it being quite a huge struggle not knowing where you stand, because one day they are your friends and they are your comrades, and then the next day she is the scum on the bottom of their shoe, like she can't do right.

Speaker 2: 14:40

It's so, yeah, so hot and cold. So Katy Perry, so master chef, yep, so oh, lexi's followed Meredith into the bathroom. Meredith has followed her psychologist into the bathroom and Lexi says I forgive you. I forgive you for treating me like crap and letting your friend treat me like crap. I don't know how you get up. I honestly don't. Our dad abandoned you. Your mum, by all accounts, was the meanest person ever. You can't let Derek love you and everything really sucks. It all sucks. And since I knew you existed, I had this fantasy about my big sister, and you have failed on every occasion to live up to that fantasy, but I still love you, whether you are capable of letting me or not. So I forgive you. And she doesn't let Meredith say anything in return, she just walks out.

Speaker 1: 15:37

The toilet flushes, the door opens. How's one o'clock Right?

Speaker 2: 15:45

There of us comes out and books Meredith an appointment.

Speaker 1: 15:48

So I can't understand Lexi's motivation here. You can't. If someone had treated me that way, I'd be done From the start. If it were the other way around and Meredith was chasing after Lexi and wanted a familial connection with someone who doesn't have one, that I would understand. Lexi has sisters. She grew up in this town. I'm sure she has many friends because she is a nice human being. I don't understand the motivation to desperately seek approval and kinship from this, frankly, blatantly awful, manipulative human being.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Yeah, I understand what you mean.

Speaker 1: 16:40

I really do For the plot of the show, I get it, but we talk about the real life situation yeah For the plot of the show makes sense, and this doesn't make any sense to me. I actually think she's been giving and giving, and giving and giving and Meredith hasn't done a. Is there been a single act of kindness from Meredith?

Speaker 2: 17:03

There has been one and it's a very Meredith kindness. It's not a kindness that I don't think anyone else would really take as a kindness, but when Meredith gave Lexi the oh my gosh, what's it called, like the, I'm going to say, morgue report, and I know that's not what it is the death thing for her mom that said what happened? The medical, the thing you get when someone dies. That explains, thank you.

Speaker 1: 17:34

But still, that was more of a professional courtesy at that point. No.

Speaker 2: 17:42

I think that was a weird Meredith doing a kindness Because I Okay, this is my take on it. Meredith is pushing this away because Meredith is very much like I have no family. Family is not a thing that I understand, want, don't need. I have my chosen family. I have my friends. That's Meredith's family. Christina is Meredith's family.

Speaker 2: 18:14

Lexi comes from a family, has sisters, had a functional parental parents, parents, not parents. They were her parents growing up. She kind of views family really different. I think the way that Lexi views family is that blood thicker than water thing Doesn't matter, you will always be my family, we will always be family. That means something to me. I think this is the reason why she is saying this to Meredith is it's like I'll always be here. You will always be my family, whether you want me to be or not. This is how I grew up. This is what I believe. Family is everything. Family is important. That's just what Lexi believes.

Speaker 2: 19:09

I think it is trying to show us from a writing perspective. I think it is just trying to show us these two sisters who are from completely different worlds and believe different things and have different priorities. I do see I can see how this would play out in real life with some people. I can see someone being like hey look, you treat me like absolute crap, but at the end of the day, you are my sister. I will always be here. Whether you want me to love you or not, I'm going to be, I do. I'm moving on Ball's in your court. I think that just proves our different situations.

Speaker 1: 19:48

Totally yeah, because I'm the Meredith in this and you're the Lexi.

Speaker 2: 19:55

No, I don't have sisters or anything, no, but yes, we did grow up very differently and totally in this situation for sure. So, christina, apart from cleaning this morning she gets to the hospital and we find out pretty quickly that the hospital is a bit of a buzz. It's a bit exciting. There's a big cardio god in the hospital today. His name is Walter Tapley and everyone is very excited. He trained Weber. He's Weber's mentor which is a bigger discussion and Han is excited. Han didn't know that Weber was trained by Walter Tapley. And she says, like you trained at the hands of God. Like, oh, my goodness, everyone is very excited. The problem then arises that the reason why Walter Tapley is here, he's not here for a visit, he's not here to teach, he's not here to do a big procedure where everyone can get in on it and learn something. He is here because he needs a heart operation.

Speaker 1: 21:04

And he chose the person who he thinks he can most easily manipulate and hold something over who, and then that person does the same to their subordinates.

Speaker 2: 21:17

Yes, this is the story. This is the thing we need to discuss.

Speaker 1: 21:21

Yeah, Well, because Weber is not only holding his authority over Han in this instance, but we are back on the George doing inappropriate tasks. Train, did you like that? There was a train reference.

Speaker 2: 21:39

Oh, does that mean that we get to talk about the train it does? The most uncomfortable train I have ever heard.

Speaker 1: 21:49

So Walter Tapley has come in. He has this big tumor and he has come to Weber because Weber runs a hospital and Weber owes him some favors. This cancer is inoperable. Everyone said they won't touch it with a 10 foot pole because nobody wants to kill Walter Tapley. And you know what? To be honest, I get it. I understand it. Like this tumor, this procedure is super dangerous. And even if it wasn't the Walter Tapley, I don't think that most surgeons would be taking it on. And throughout the course of this episode, weber is just pushing and pushing and pushing on Dahan that she has to do this thing and I love that she stands up for herself on multiple occasions. I don't like that George doesn't stand up for himself, because I think this is what the fourth episode, maybe fifth episode in a row that George's job has been managing the private life of his superiors.

Speaker 2: 22:56

It's horrible. I just I don't understand. Why did George fail his?

Speaker 1: 23:04

intern exam. I wonder.

Speaker 2: 23:07

It's like where is George getting Bailey's kid out of daycare? Because Bailey punched another kid over a graham cracker A graham cracker Over a graham cracker A graham cracker.

Speaker 1: 23:19

I don't know why I find it so funny.

Speaker 2: 23:20

I don't, I don't even think I know what a graham cracker is, but it's funny.

Speaker 1: 23:25

I also don't really know what a graham cracker is. I thought it was a salata.

Speaker 2: 23:29

I think it's a salata or a crusket it's not, oh no, it's neither of those things.

Speaker 1: 23:35

It's more like a digestive. Oh, it's kind of sweet, like it's made out of like. No, so digestives when they don't have chocolate on them aren't? They're just like a whole wheat biscuit, because I've seen recipes for graham crackers and salata is a kind of puffing.

Speaker 2: 23:50

That's why you know what it is, because you want to bake them.

Speaker 1: 23:53

You want to make them. I want to know what the thing is with s'mores. Have you never had s'mores? Well, american marshmallows fucking suck. I don't like marshmallows, that's fair. Yeah, and like graham crackers are a specifically American thing. And then I thought maybe they were like arrowroot biscuits, because they use them to make like biscuit bases. But this is not a food podcast, I know, but I love it.

Speaker 2: 24:22

I love it. When you go into your little food world you just go on a whole little journey and I can see that in your mind. You're in your kitchen and you're looking at ingredients and you're like it's cute, I love it. One day you can make a little Grazan how to Me cookbook and it'll be really cute and I'll do all the little pictures and you can do all the recipes and take some photos.

Speaker 1: 24:45

I love that the recipe for the graham cracker is going to be serve, serve. I love that the recipe I love that the recipe punched a child. Can it be that the recipe for the graham cracker is going to have a serving suggestion of with a punch from a toddler?

Speaker 2: 25:01

Yeah, this is I think. I think we need to make this book. This would be so fun. We should be taking notes as we go through so we get everything down. I'm going to write it down right now.

Speaker 1: 25:12

Wow. But so not only is is George helping Bailey um thorough baby Tucker in and out of daycare, he's also helping the chief sex.

Speaker 2: 25:29

I mean, can we call it that?

Speaker 1: 25:32

Sure, I think that's what they were going for the term selfie and sex didn't exist when this episode came out.

Speaker 2: 25:41

children- so read it. Are you ready? Ready to feel uncomfortable, mm? Hmm, george reads a message that the chief has sent a. I don't actually just quit. This is a pretty annoying thing to go like, very annoying specific to go on. But chief says read it for me, as if Adele has sent a message. Right, but George reads the message that Weber sent Adele. Or is George reading a message that hasn't been sent yet? Because I don't understand why the chief is like read it for me, george.

Speaker 1: 26:16

I don't think they had the technology that they do now to put those annoying text bubbles up on screen, like do you remember the dilemma video clip with Nellie and Kelly Rowland where they wanted to like show her texting on her blackberry and it was actually an Excel document on the blackberry, yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:34

Yeah, I mean similar vibe Now like season 19, grey's Anatomy we're getting text bubble screen left right and on, but this is what it would say if we could. If we could see it, this is the text bubble that would be on the screen in this moment. Dear Adele, eat with me. The love train is leaving the station and you know, you want to take a ride. Take a ride on my love train.

Speaker 1: 27:07

I don't like it. I don't like it either. It makes me think of like those romantic songs in another language that are all like sensual and lovely. And then you see the literal English translation and it's this yeah, when something yeah. When something doesn't translate properly it's it doesn't translate properly.

Speaker 2: 27:29

It's not good and, like Dear Adele, eat with me, is a really very off putting sentence.

Speaker 1: 27:40

It's very visceral. I don't like it?

Speaker 2: 27:45

No, thank you. Anyone wants to send me a romantic text? Can you please not send it like that? Thank you.

Speaker 1: 27:52

Thank you. Thank you, but like so much of this episode, is people being taken advantage of and treated really poorly in a professional way, like hurt people, hurt people. Weber's mentor saying things to him like you know, I came here because I thought you'd run a tight ship and you know the the negging of that. And then Han being really angry with Christina for not really being interested in Tapley being here. Weber mistreating Han, mistreating George Bailey, dismissing George. Christina treating Lexi really poorly. Meredith overstepping on her psychiatrist.

Speaker 1: 28:42

But I want to mention something that one of our listeners popped into the discord chat last week and I'm so glad to get the feedback because I'm still so angry about the way that Han has been walking around this hospital high and mighty, because in this episode we see a perfect example of her standing up to a superior that's trying to treat her poorly, but she is constantly doing that to Christina. Yeah, so in our discord, squids wrote in. I like how Khan calls out misogyny in the hospital and advocates for herself, but seriously, her job is to teach and how she treats Yang is fucked up and makes me so mad. Yeah, christina has her flaws, I get it, but not teaching a highly gifted resident because of your own personal bias is so unprofessional?

Speaker 2: 29:35

Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree, and I know we're going on this like Han Renaissance and realizing how amazing she is, but, correct, she's a terrible teacher. She's a terrible teacher and that that is actually her biggest flaw. So we were right in the sense. Watching it back in the day, the reason why we didn't like Han was because of how shit Christina was feeling all the time, and that's still valid. But what I think we are excited about is just seeing this woman stand up in her power in in this space, because, because we just don't get to see it very often, and I think with everything else so groundbreaking about this show, for some reason, this part of it it was happening and it was so there, but it just fell under the radar for us for some reason, like we couldn't see it.

Speaker 1: 30:29

But the biggest thing is that she was definitely yeah, they had these incredibly independent and strong female characters, but when it came to women on women relationships, they often, yeah, fell victim to treating women the way that men treat women to get more power.

Speaker 2: 30:51

Yeah, it becomes a competitive. We don't see much women. Supporting women is the kind of no problem.

Speaker 1: 30:56

It becomes a really competitive race in a way, and that sort of flows through into our two other patients this week as well. So we have Ava, who's still with us in the hospital, and we have Greta too, and Greta is just. I would have loved to have gone on that cruise with Greta.

Speaker 2: 31:18

She feels like a what Greta is beautiful.

Speaker 1: 31:23

And and her sister is being the least supportive and virgin are nasty, I agree. So, I just. Greta is the fifth patient in our in our clinical trial.

Speaker 1: 31:43

And she's lovely. She is so lovely. She is a woman who, what seems to be in her mid 50s or so, has managed to get through life without having any big relationships or the big love as Sex and the City says, and she went on a cruise. They met in January. Four months ago she met Andre in the most beautiful, whimsy Disney way possible. She lost a little slipper and he came and brought it to her at brunch and it was sweet. But what we know about these tumours is that they have a tendency to dilute reality.

Speaker 2: 32:26

Yeah. So this is kind of one of the biggest fantasy versus reality kind of things that is coming through this episode. So not only, like you know, we have also Lexi when she says, like I had this fantasy of a big sister and you're not living up to it, but I'm going to love you anyway. That ties in with this. We have the Ava Rebecca storyline, which is all about the lines of fantasy and reality being blurred. And we have Greta and the same thing. She's saying that she's finally found this big love and she's had this huge big romantic story on this cruise. And she's come home and no one believes her. And this is back in the day where we didn't have iPhones or we could just snap pictures all the time. Because her sisters are like we don't have any proof, you have not proved to us that this man exists, and they just absolutely have lost all faith in believing Greta's stories. They say a few things, like you know. They say like oh, in the past she's sent herself flowers on Valentine's Day. Like they just don't believe her.

Speaker 1: 33:43

It's all really fucking gross and judgy.

Speaker 2: 33:46

Isn't it? It's like, because it's verging on this point of them being like there's no way she could be loved, and I think that's how Greta's starting to feel with this judgment from her sisters.

Speaker 1: 33:57

The gaslighting is real, because it's not just her sister, it's Meredith as well. Meredith is in this big rush to use the treatment before it expires and Greta is said from the get go that her partner will be here at three o'clock. And Derek, he says that he wants to give her some more time to enjoy him. Whether he is real or not, at the end of the day, a patient who is happy and calm and relaxed is going to do better in surgery.

Speaker 1: 34:33

When you're stressed, you have different hormones running through your body. Your heart pressures up. All of this stuff is relevant.

Speaker 2: 34:41

And we've seen it before that it's this idea of if a patient has something to live for, if they have a reason to believe, if they have like something that they can hold on to. I know it sounds really woo-woo, I know it sounds bit, but it's something about.

Speaker 1: 35:00

It's human nature. It's actually just how we work.

Speaker 2: 35:03

And I was. So. Why is he put the picture of the bird on the roof for the bird guy? It's why Christina held Tucker's hand. It's the humanity in it all. It's the hope, and hope is so powerful. And it's really interesting because it's Derek and Meredith doing this trial and you just really see in this patient, like the way that they view love and the way that Derek's so.

Speaker 1: 35:34

Well, he asks Mark, do I have an idealized my relationship with Meredith? And I think Derek idealizes what he thinks his relationship could be and not the realism of what it is. Yep, but what drove me fucking mad about this whole thing is if you had to wait till three o'clock, because it's after the first meeting with this patient that Meredith goes into the lab and mixes together the active ingredients, why did that need to be done more than like 15 minutes before surgery? Why did you have to give yourself a timeline?

Speaker 2: 36:15

That's so true. I don't know.

Speaker 1: 36:19

Because the whole episode she's like we only have this amount of time to get this done before the stuff expires. Why did you mix it together then? Why couldn't this have been pushed back till tomorrow? Why couldn't you just waited?

Speaker 2: 36:37

That's so true.

Speaker 1: 36:40

His patient hasn't given her consent yet. No, her consent writing on this. So why was this?

Speaker 2: 36:46

rushed. The patient is being so clear, like I will not do the surgery until after three o'clock, and in any other situation they wait for the family, unless it's an emergency. But this isn't something that's fine. This isn't like a life or death.

Speaker 1: 37:03

If it comes an emergency, like she gets the swelling and stuff, not now. You still have to get from one end of the hospital to the other. You need to get her head shaved and do all the different bits and pieces you've got to do once she's in that surgery and that's enough time to go and mix the fluids together or sit together at 2.30.

Speaker 2: 37:22

Totally. I mean, Meredith isn't really doing anything else today, Like she can chill. She's being a fucking menace.

Speaker 1: 37:30

Yeah, she calls Greta, calls herself pathetic and single.

Speaker 2: 37:35

Derek is very overly romantic. This episode, like very, all about the fairy tale. He wants to help Greta. He, derek, even though he is so fucking annoying, he does have the. He is overly romantic. He does do all the big grand gestures. He does put pressure on people to live up to these really heightened, big, grandiose expectations. And that's why you know his pressured Meredith so hard in the past because she isn't conforming to the idea of what he wants in his head, which is this fantasy. And that's why he wants, he wants Greta's story to be real so much because, derek, that's what Derek wants.

Speaker 1: 38:23

I think Derek also has an understanding as a neurosurgeon of the physical effects of the mind and how your beliefs can Play into reality. For example, our patient a couple of weeks ago who was doing the laying of hands just because they didn't have scientific proof for her belief, it still managed to cure a staff infection. So having this patient go into this procedure happy and calm probably going to get better results.

Speaker 2: 38:55

And yeah, especially because, like you said, it's the brain You're dealing with. The brain, well it's, and Derek knows that calm, happy brains are better than stressed, unhappy, negative. Like it does affect the way that your brain's thingies are transmitting and firing and Derek can visually see that.

Speaker 1: 39:15

Well, this procedure actually proves that, because unfortunately it gets to five o'clock and Andre still isn't here and she is distraught and stressed to the point where she does pass out. The brain starts swelling and they have to go in. And you wonder if she hadn't been, you know, gaslit and traumatized into thinking this person didn't exist and that she was pathetic and she was delusional, would that swelling have occurred? Would the stress hormones have not triggered all of these horrible reactions, and would she maybe have survived this procedure had she have been in a more calm, better state of mind? So, unfortunately, andre's late.

Speaker 2: 40:05

Whether or not you believe in the not scientific, the like woo-woo, you know it's kind of irrelevant because the things that they're talking about medically, the things that they, it's like, do whatever you do. That makes you calm and happy in these moments, like it doesn't matter if you believe whatever the patients are doing, whatever the patients believe, it's so irrelevant because the end goal is Health and happiness. Is like health, happiness and peace, going into these surgeries or just you know, in such a stressful environment as a hospital, like do whatever you need to do to calm the patients down, something that is easy, would you know, is all over. Totally understands, derek. Totally understands.

Speaker 1: 40:49

Yeah, 100%, it's yeah, and this episode is so devastating because Andre does arrive.

Speaker 2: 41:01

And also, before Greta goes into surgery, she completely ends up believing that she made him up, which is heartbreaking. She is completely convinced by Meredith, by her sister, by the fact that it's past three o'clock, that her last what month or so of being in love with this person didn't happen, that she made it up, that they don't exist, that she isn't in love, that she's been living in a complete fantasy world because of a tumor, and I don't know why I'm going to cry.

Speaker 1: 41:48

It makes me very emotional, yeah it's awful, and we're convinced of it too, as watches and this moment where the surgery is kind of the best result we've had so far. She doesn't die, her brain doesn't die, but she is in a comatose or a vegetative state, and that's when Andre arrives and Andre has hope, because it's been a fairy tale so far. So who's to say it won't continue? Yeah, it's another thing that I'm kind of hoping we find out next week, but the one thing that I'm really fucking not looking forward to next week and I want done with this is Ava.

Speaker 2: 42:41

So Ava is still at the hospital today. Well, weirdly, in the opening scenes Alex is making Ava breakfast at Joe's bar Like he's in the bar.

Speaker 1: 42:58

Yeah, so did we miss an episode where he starts moonlighting to make money for the baby? That's gotta be it right. Yeah, I think it's a good idea, or, like you, definitely don't have your partner sitting at the bar and vomiting in the trash can within your first week of work.

Speaker 2: 43:15

Why aren't they just making breakfast at Meredith's house? Why is she at the bar?

Speaker 1: 43:20

I do not understand.

Speaker 2: 43:23

I don't think it's open. I think Alex has a key or something. It's definitely not. They're the only two there. They've cooked her breakfast there, like there's a scene missing or something. This is so confusing and this is just something I did not remember, cannot figure out.

Speaker 1: 43:46

Okay, good, so we're on the same page. But I hate it because it's not explained. Ava's delusion runs deep, because she's convinced that she is pregnant. Izzy still hasn't said anything. She even sort of asks.

Speaker 2: 44:05

Bailey for advice on what to do. Is he trying to say something though? Izzy is trying to figure out a way that she can legally tell someone hey, like she's not pregnant, but I can't tell her because she's not listening to me, she's not believing me. I can't tell Alex because it's patient confidentiality.

Speaker 2: 44:32

He's a pseudo girlfriend patient confidentiality. Izzy is stuck in a really, really difficult situation because Izzy knows that something needs to change and, unfortunately, izzy knows too well how this is affecting Alex and Alex does not want to talk to her about it. It's a really hard position for Izzy to be in this. Isn't Izzy trying to be manipulative, trying to get Alex back, and that's kind of unfortunately the way that it's coming across.

Speaker 1: 45:03

Well, that's definitely how it was portrayed the first two episodes. Now I think maybe they changed their mind on the way that they wanted to go about it. Ava's spending the day looking for Mark and when she does find him, we find out that she finds him because she wants her body to match her face. You can't have surgery when you're pregnant. Mark comes to Izzy with this information and Izzy tells him what's going on and what to do.

Speaker 2: 45:40

I really like that, which is great, because all of a sudden there's a way for Izzy to talk to someone else about this, because all of a sudden it becomes two doctors with the same patient who need to share information to the patient's benefit. So thank God there's someone Izzy can talk to.

Speaker 1: 45:55

Mark's actually quite helpful. He says that she might have acute stress disorder, which can sometimes happen for large-scale face implants. It's like a break in reality which again leads into our fantasy thing, where for her this is very real. But Izzy, I think, goes about this the right way.

Speaker 2: 46:17

She's not being mean, she's not being condescending, she's trying to use science to explain and she takes Ava in for an ultrasound and shows that there is no child, there is no fetus in her womb and also, I think, an important distinction as well is you can say and there was never a fetus here, because Izzy is able to show other ultrasounds of what a womb looks like when there is a new fetus in there and also when there has been one, just in case you know, to show like even if the baby wasn't there anymore, like this is the changes that happen if she had been pregnant. And yes, alex is able to be there, or he barges in, he appears because he's really unhappy with Izzy.

Speaker 1: 47:10

Well, I think that Ava would have messaged him or paged him and been like hey, we're going for our first ultrasound, you should be here, because that's what people do. True, but it's not really until this ultrasound and until this moment that we realize the depth of Ava's situation. Previously we thought it was manipulation, and then we thought that maybe she had had a miscarriage or something else. And it's not till right now, when she completely and utterly breaks down and is sobbing that she lost a baby, that we realize that it is a hysterical pregnancy.

Speaker 2: 47:55

I don't. I don't even think it's, I don't know what it. What did Mark call it? It's kind of like a acute stress disorder. Yeah, having a phantom pregnancy delusion?

Speaker 1: 48:07

Yeah, that's it. That's a hysterical pregnancy because she has all the symptoms of it. She's had, you know, morning sickness and bloating, and mood swings and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2: 48:21

Alex is able to be there, which is so good, because he says you were never pregnant and she's still in this. She can't even hear that. She can't even hear that being a sentence. She can't even believe it. She says I lost our baby and Alex says no, like there was no baby, and she's like I can't believe I lost our baby.

Speaker 1: 48:44

But I think that we should end this episode with what was one of my favorite storylines through this episode Callie dealing with the idea of reading the vagina monologues. Yeah, because Mark Mark has decided that he's going to start listening because he doesn't want women to hate him anymore. He wants women to like him and he's going to make some changes. He's not sleeping. He's turning a corner. We're not sleeping with anyone. We are not giving up this. Unless you get into this, and by that I mean no one's getting in my pants and feel they're in my heart, so I'll in brain first.

Speaker 2: 49:39

Great Great.

Speaker 1: 49:42

But Callie Callie, callie Callie needs her reassurance.

Speaker 2: 49:47

Callie.

Speaker 1: 49:47

Callie Callie. Callie, callie needs her reassurance. Callie is doing some sexual harassment today.

Speaker 2: 49:54

Well, callie is really, really trying to prove that she loves penis. I love a penis, love a penis, love a penis. But she's starting to question her sexuality a little bit and she doesn't really want to, which I think that's a really normal reaction. If you're maybe realizing, maybe you want to try something else, maybe you just love everyone, maybe you're not completely straight, but she's not totally ready to admit it yet. So she is hiding behind the penis, mark's penis. So she's very, very heavily trying to get in there, but she can't stop thinking about Han.

Speaker 1: 50:40

Mm-hmm, and Mark's just not making it easy for her either. He says to her because Mark's being pushy and he just gives one of the like best erotic monologues, like that shit just came straight out of a mills and boon, you pull her mask down, take her scrub cap off, grab a handful of that beautiful blonde hair and like, oh, he's having a minute, yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:15

Mark is so sexy, he can really do this good, and it's like affecting Kelly so hard. And then do you want to talk about the elevator scene? Is it elevator scene time?

Speaker 1: 51:28

It is God. I love the elevators. So Han did the thing. She did the surgery today. She got bullied into it. It went well, she's done alright, but like bitch needs a drink, she really does. And they end up the night with Mark Kelly and Erica in the elevator and a quip is made about a threesome, to which Han's response is you couldn't handle the two of us and I don't think she's wrong.

Speaker 2: 52:05

Absolutely not.

Speaker 1: 52:08

And she proves her point by grabbing Kelly and kissing her, to which Kelly is fucking dumbstruck. Mark is dumbstruck and hard, and Han takes both of these responses as see. It's too much for you, no bitch, it's far too much for Kelly.

Speaker 2: 52:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah On call room Also, just a wit for everyone. You know who's. It's not their first time, as this case is happening in the elevator or watching Grey's in the academy or watching Grey's in the movies or I should have Watching Grey's.

Speaker 2: 52:53

There's a song playing in the background and in the lyrics the song says the words like open my eyes. I see, I just want to throw that out. It's like a little Easter egg for something that comes up the big moment that comes up later. And if you're not talking about you know what I'm talking about. So before we finish, there is one of my favorite Grey's in the lines that comes up today and I do think it's really important for us to just I'm just going to mention it Christina.

Speaker 2: 53:30

You know we've said she's saying a lot of hard truths today. Something else that she does kind of at the end of the episode is she again has a little chapter. Lexi. Lexi walks past her. Christina is just having the worst day. We haven't even really talked about it. The reason that Christina is biting everyone today is because because she wants to be taught. She wants a cardio God to learn from. She is so pissed at Burke the fact that he left. He was her teacher. He she would have given up their whole relationship for him to teach her properly you know and she did everything she could.

Speaker 2: 54:12

Han came and Han is fucking not teaching her. I think Christina has hit this crisis point where she feels like all of her potential is going down the drain because she has no teacher. Walter Tapley is here, this God, someone that she looks up to and I don't train from, and she says like five minutes.

Speaker 1: 54:33

Everyone is confused, why?

Speaker 2: 54:35

Everyone's so confused why she doesn't want to meet him, why she doesn't want to be in the room, why she has absolutely no interest. She says I don't want five minutes with Walter Tapley, I want five years. I want to learn from him. Five minutes is a slap in the face. And later Lexi has been trying to figure out what's wrong with Christina all day. And she says what is wrong. And Christina says you make me sick, have some fire, be unstoppable, be a force of nature, be better than anyone else here and don't give a damn what anyone thinks. There are no teams, no buddies. You're on your own. Be on your own. And I think it's a really good wake up call for Lexi in a way, and also maybe a good wake up call for Yang. I just think it's a good. It's a really interesting little moment. My computer's running out of battery.

Speaker 1: 55:35

I hope that Bailey gets and George, to be honest, get the wake up calls that they need as well, because this episode also ends with Tucker coming into the hospital to pick up a little Tucker and Bailey tells him about the biting incident and he already knows and he didn't bother to tell her. And I'm on her side. I'm mad about it and I'm mad about the constant disrespect and the gas lighting from this fucking large man. She didn't make him do anything and he's trying to make her feel very guilty about it and it's not cute. But I look forward to next week's episode and, speaking to you all over the Discord and Instagram, please come and find us at scalpelsindticular. Any kind of support you can give our podcast, whether it just be listening, liking, giving a follow, sharing some of our content, and, if you feel like it, we also have a Patreon that comes with access to our close friends only Instagram, as well as some free, limited edition merch. So head on over there if you feel like contributing. And quickly.

Speaker 2: 56:46

we are going to start popping these videos up there, so look out for that. That is about to start happening.

Speaker 1: 56:54

Thank you all so much for listening and we will see you next week. Bye.